Posted by Bill Cooper on February 17, 1999 at 02:48:43:
In Reply to: I forgot, until GM takesover BMW the 323i posted by Kamal on February 16, 1999 at 18:52:36:
: doesn't have a cheaper, roomier, faster (see C&D for 1.8T Passat), better warrantied (10 years) twin that ranks much higher than it. Did you see the latest Auto Motor und Sport survey of 120,000 readers. The Passat is considered in much higher regard than the A4, probably for the above reasons. The new 3-series was voted best in this category. Put a price on that feature. Oh yeah, the new FWD Rover 75 is not a 3-series twin and it's not ranked higher.
: : BMW's warranty is 4 years, Audi's is 3. That extra year is worth a lot more than the previous three, at least according to the Weibull distribution. You mentioned armrest et cetera, what about features that the BMW has that Audi's missing? Features like vented rear brakes, cornering brake control, coded driveaway protection, smart deployment airbags, car and key memory, European Delivery, head protection airbags, perfect 50/50 balance and an engine that doesn't need a chip and all the associated problems (misfire comes to mind, long-term durability, warranty issues, not to mention $600 extra bucks). Put a price on those features and let's see how they compare.
: : : Kamal,
: : : If you are asserting that the 323i is cheaper than a 1.8T quattro, you have to back that up with real stuff. First of all, when somebody says Car B is cheaper than Car B, they are generally talking about initial cost (not ownership cost over X years). Secondly, Audi's warranty is at least as good as, if not better than BMW's. The corporate discount you are talking about may or may not be available to everyone. where I live, you can get the same $ over invoice (or lower) on any A4 as you can on any E46. As for resale, the 1.8TQ has one of the highest resale values in its class and price range. Any difference in residual values between these two cars is purely speculation on your part.
: : : In order to really compare the 323i to an A4 1.8TQ, you have to add the cost of a few options, namely metallic paint, folding rear seats, cruise control, 15" alloy wheels, center armrest, and fog lights. I doubt if you took these items in to account. You are talking an extra 2 grand to bring the base 323i to A4 1.8T equipment levels. On the other hand, the 323i has some extra standard safety equipment (HPS) that one can assign a dollar value to.
: : : Don't get me wrong, the 323i is a notch or two above the 1.8TQ in terms of everything from refinement, extra cylinders, extra room, etc., but I think it is erroneous to claim that it is also cheaper to buy than an A4 1.8TQ.
For some reason in So Cali, dealers who I called on a 1999 1.8Q that I needed to take on trade, wouldn't even put a $ ammount on it, with comments like"we don't want it" or the quattro is LESS desirable(could just be the San Diego clime) I was unable to get anyone to buy this 2200 mile car for even 5k under invoice! As to why tthe owner wanted to trade it for a 99 E46 2.5 litre? They woke up! BC