Re: BMW CCA Car Control Clinic Results... (long) (archive)

The complete automotive resource for buyers, sellers, and owners like you.

I have to say that one a more economical scale that many folks are similarly impressed with the short wheelbase 7 series. I've surprised many a five series owner when they see the similar wheelbase then sample the handling...

Attended the day-long BMW CCA Car Control Clinic yesterday and wanted to share the experience and results. Driving the 850 through slaloms, braking/avoidance manuevers and the skid pad is a truly exciting learning experience. About 60 BMWs attended, with the largest representation being M3s, and other 3-Series. Some 540s and a 740 were were also present. Along with Len Cacioppo's 850CSi, Rob B. also had his newly acquired '97 840 there. The 8s performed beautifully holding their own along side the M3s and other lighter cars. They demonstrate extreme performance levels that can really only be safely appreciated off street in controlled event conditions. For those considering upgrades prior to an event, larger tires and rims do make a difference, but otherwise the car's greatest limitation (at least in my case)is driver skill.

The stock 850s performance level is very, very high. It fared very well with the lighter more nimble M3s through slaloms, braking and skid pad. Its weight makes it a handful at times, but its gobs of power and wider track really make it shine once you get used to them. With stock suspension and plus 2 18" tires my car easily exceeded my skills. Instructors who drove the car immediately dismissed its weight and commented on its agility, power and balance after tearing through slalom and skid pad demonstrations.

The car was very, very nimble and clearly crosses over into sports-oriented versus GT territory. It excelled in moderate-to-high speed manuevers through the slalom. It's wide track makes it very grippy and stable, but watch out for trailing cones. Even some instructors who drove it knocked a few cones down with the rear tires. The car is very well balanced and has classic BMW understeer. Pumping the 18" front tires up to a hot front pressure of 42 psi helps but you'll still see telltale rollover marks on the outside shoulders of the front tires while on the skid pad. I set the 18" rears at 40 psi and they were unmarked. Make sure to adjust the pressures after the first run. I set inital pressures after driving 20 miles to the event. After the first run they went up about 4-5 psi and needed to be reduced.

The oval skid pad: If you've ever wandered what it feels like when the tires **finally** break loose in a 30-40mph+ turn, this is the exercise. I'm happy to report that not only is the 8 grippy and controllable, but its also great fun inducing understeer and then increasing turn-in by modulating the gobs of power available via the throttle. In sharp cornering the car can hang right at its limit in a poised manner. Its very balanced and civil at the limits of adhesion yet the power on tap lets you do what you want when you want to. 4,100lb GT or not, its performance relative to M3s or other light cars is wonderful. No excuses here, the car holds its own. The only downside of the skid pad is that you should expect to kiss your front tires goodby. While the exercise was hard on even the lighter cars'tires, the 8s seem to make up for their weight by sacrificing their tires. I started the exercise with 4mm available rubber to the wear bars and finished with the outside half of the front tires warn unevenly to about 2mm and as little as 1mm toward the far outside edge. Lots of outside edge feathering and tread block distortion. Expect to replace your front tires(rears were virtually unaffected).

I found the braking event most difficult. The 8s brakes are excellent and haul the car down from high speed very rapidly. The second half of the event is accident avoidance: Some tricky manuevers for a 4,100lb car. Much easier in a 3,400lb car. On the other hand, its very driver dependent and Len C. loved it whereas I ate cone, after cone, after cone. We both pushed the car very hard entering the "chute" at 60+ mph instead of 30-40mph to really see what they would do. Here's how it works: You're directed down a "chute" of cones at the end of which is the option of a left or right turn into a second short chute, and then another turn toward the center. Its basically accident avoidance as though someone were to pull out in front of you unexpectedly. What makes it difficult is that the instructor operates a light signal with green or red lights indicating which chute to enter, the left or right. Of course, you're travelling initially at 20-30 mph and later at 40+ mph and the lights only flash at the very last second (you'd swear you'd already passed the turn when they come on!). The speed increases each run you take. The stock 8's are actually really, really nimble, with a bit more stock roll than, for instance, an M3. But I just couldn't get the hang of tossing the car hard at the very last second. After the event, from discussions with others including Len, I realized that the instructors may have been pushing the 8 drivers a bit harder. I heard more than once, "you've got gobs of untapped performance... come in faster... no, even faster." I eventually came in at about 60-65 mph, barely making a sharp last minute manuever to follow the instructor's green signal(barely killing one cone)and then sliding sideways through an entire row of cones and haphazardly correcting to end up in the designated spot (with about 10 cones wedged under my spoiler). In hindsight, fearing my rapid rate of entry (and impending doom impaled on the christmas tree-like direction lights), I incorrectly hit the brakes as I enterred my left turn manuever to follow the green light (signalled just a whee bit late in my opinion). Later the instructor pointed out that this "loaded" the right suspension, making the second turn a slide when the compressed right side suspension "unsprung" as I started the ensuing right turn. Again, no suspension or other upgrade needed: Simply a driver upgrade issue. The cars handle beautifully with a bit more stock body roll than the M3s. As far as cone damage, there's really nothing to worry about. Two things happen when you hit a cone. One, you get a cone "snake" or line from the rubbing. This rubs off more easily than crayon. Two, if you eat a cone and it travels along the right or left side underbody, it may knock loose one of the plastic jacking point, which pop back in. Even with the front and rear CSi spoilers I didn't mar or crack anything after annihilating several cones via dead-on hits. (Len never confessed cleaning any cones, but those sure did look like cone snakes on the his car??? :')).

Overall, the 8s are a blast to drive at these events, with performance more like the M3s than the 5 or 7 Series. As an end note, from comments and responses, its evident that many owners of other series BMWs are unfamiliar with our cars. Of the three seasoned instructors I had, none had driven one previously in an event. Each loved it, gave it praise as a sports car, not a GT, and gleefully dismissed weight reservations after driving it. More senior BMW owners came by to check the car out and were really surprised to hear about the power, handling and performance--citing old press articles touting it as a limited GT engineered for cruising car. Younger M3 owners really highlighted confusion over the 8 and showed a bit of rivalry. Several initially made comments suggesting that it looked nice but really only performed like a 7-Series or at best a 5-series. After a few runs through the courses they started asking questions. Most didn't even realize the 850 has a V12 or offered a 6spd. I think most were really surprised at the 8s performance. By the end of the day, comparisons to even the 5 series were replaced by statements like "well the 8s a sports car and the 540 just wasn't built as a sports car so its not a fair comparison" or the instructor at the slalom "jesus, this thing flies... how'd I hit that cone, it handles great, but I shouldn't have hit that cone." Anyone considering one of these events should know that not only do these "GT" cars belong shoulder to shoulder with the M3s and other lightweight sports cars, but that at times they even excel and provide great satsifaction to the owners who run them side-by-side. Don't be shy about putting them through their paces with an event in your area.

Questions, comments, or problems, please visit the Roadfly help desk.