Re: more... (archive)

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Thanks for well-written commentary, not frequently found on this board, sorry to say.
You're right about misinformation on this subject - someone even suggested it was the fault of the US and its oil industry and that BMW did not have any responsibility to research this.
BMW have so far gotten away with a serious product design defect for two reasons IMO; first, the problem occurs slowly enough such that the results of, and subsequent responsibility of such problem can be confused with normal engine wear, i.e. we know the engine should last 250k miles, not the antiquated 100k benchmark that will be used as an excuse. Second, the leakage due to upper bore corrosion that occurs slowly is compensated by the computer controlled idle and O2 sensor system, just like normal engine wear would be. The result is that nothing will be apparently wrong until the system runs out of adjustment range. I believe that is why in many cases the problem is reported to occur suddenly.

Clearly BMW knows about this defect but they have been careful not to admit this, for obvious reasons. In a lawsuit we would presumably have to prove not only that there is a real defect, but that the engine should last much more that 100k.

By introducing a warranty covering "internally lubricated engine parts" BMW have diverted attention from the source of the problem, and provide PR control of the inevitable rumors.

Myself, I'm stuck with a car costing $43k new, which at 48k miles and perfect condition, is worth only $16.4k as a trade in.

: Willis, I have a 1994 530i (clutch), bought new 10/93, 73000 miles so far. Passed the test protocol in 10/99. Tested again on 4/28/00 at my own expense, with the worst possible result: just barely a passing grade with leakdown percentages of 12% and 10% on cylinders 6 and 8. (One cylinder exceeding 15% is BMW's definition of failure.) So mine will probably fail, but maybe not before 100k miles and definitely not within 6 years. I plan to keep the car (which I like very much and which runs flawlessly), fix it when it's required, and make a claim against BMW at that time. I think the prospects for success depend on a great many things: service records, mileage at which failure occurs, existence of other engine wear (rings, valves, etc.) at the time. But like you, I think BMW has exposure on these cars even out of the extended warranty period. The most difficult aspect of this is, of course, resale value. I kind of think the situation helps the dealers. They can get the fix done "at cost" in their service departments, with parts at cost. The rest of us pay (excuse the pun) full bore, which looks like $5,000-$6,000. Private buyers are increasingly knowledgable, and expect a discount on unrepaired cars. Even the dealer admits this.
: There's been some blather on this board and elsewhere about the problem being "only partly" BMW's fault (just the engine part, I guess) and BMW being "generous" in extending the warranty to 6yr/100K mi. And some have asserted that not all the blocks are prone to failure. But from what I have read about the problem, it sounds like straight chemistry to me. Put enough sulfur in the recipe, and the block melts, every time, all the time. If that's really how it is, I'd be prepared to consider or participate in a class action if it turns out that BMW is drawing a bright line at the limit of its unilaterally extended warranty. BMW has done well by its customers for these cars so far, and maybe they will continue to do so. I hope so. In any case, your willingness to gather and publish data on "customer accommodations" by BMW is extremely useful and helpful, thanks.
: : I would like to know the true extent of the engine problems on the early V-8's. I have a 95 740il and have been told everything from only a few are affected to "Its not a question of if but when." How many fellow owners have had problems and how has BMW handled the replacement? Also is BMW firm on the warranty cutoff of 6 years or 100k miles? Has anyone had BMW replace an engine under warranty after this period? I would think this is an actionable defect as I'm sure the pollution goes up as the cylinders wear. Any information would be appreciated.

: : If you e-mail me with subject V-8, year, model, miles when engine replaced or current miles with no problem, I'll compile the statistics and publish them when I get enough responses.

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