In Reply to: Re: Yes and no! posted by Chester Wong on October 08, 2000 at 09:39:59:
I see it would be friutless to go into how little difference a 25.4mm bar compared to a 26mm bar would make (which represents less than 10% in torsion strength) to the handling of your fully race prepared M3!
Chester, can you explain why some other swaybar makers have completely different (much smaller) diameter swaybars for the M3? Have you ever thought to ask how a 26mm or 25.4mm compared to the size that others are suggesting that you use would affect handling? Chester, have you ever wondered if all tires like a 245/40 X 17 (for example) are all exactly 245mm wide and have a sidewall exactly 98mm high? Ever wonder if BMW made sure the psi in each one of your cylinders was exactly the same?
Do you even know what the spring rates are on your M3? Do you know what the spring rate equivalent is for your tires? Do you set up your M3 for racing (or street) based on tire temperatures and track temperatures? What's your tire's rebound rate? What rubber compound are you going with?
Chester, you have no clue what such a small difference in diameter would make. Are there adjustment holes on that bar? How many? Why not twice that many? Or three times that many? Do you think it would make any more difference than an adjustment of about 1/2 lb air pressure in your tires? What the dynamic difference when you make an adjustment of the bars. Tell me about it Chester. I want to learn more about it and it seems like you have the answers. Well, then again maybe not because you said no one knew what the difference in a 26mm bar compared to 25.4 would do to the cars handling!
Chester, listen up because I'm telling you right now...the answer is it will do nothing different with the car's handling that you would ever notice. What was the comment about the car's handling seemed off or sluggish compared to stock when using the bars...really now! Think about what you're saying Chester and you may want to look to see where your head is.
Bob, is your head so far up your ass that you can't think straight? To justify UUC's smaller diameter bar size by citing, "Well, if they're both 10% less stiff, then it's accomplishing the same effect...just slightly less" is just plain stupid. You are making statements about suspension tuning that you plain and simply do not understand. I do not claim to be a suspension expert, but I do know that UUC sway bars do indeed differ from what they advertise.
They clearly marketed their bars to compete directly against Eibach bars. Eibach bars are also rebadged as AC Schnitzer over in Germany and I know that those guys actually race their cars and put a lot of effort to fine tune their products. If you measure an Eibach swaybar, you'll get exactly 26mm in the front and 24mm in the rear. If you measure UUC bars, you'll get 25.4mm in the front and 23.7 in the rear. Whether or not this is an optimal compromise, that remains to be seen, but I do know that I do not like the fact that they weren't honest in their advertisements and are still not honest after bringing this up with Ben, co-owner of UUC Motorwerks. His responses were, "Oh, we're only talking fractions of a millimeter...very insignificant," or "yes, they are SAE equivalents to get as close to 26/24, but *everyone else*--RD Sport, Racing Dynamics, etc--are using SAE equivalents as well," or "everyone who bought the bars are extremely happy with them, the racers love them, the resellers can get enough to sell....I'm not sure why your car is not handling well with them...maybe it's your car." ...yeah, just like the hood foam is thicker on the '99 M3s... BTW, the person who bought my UUC strut bar had his hood permanently dimple (oh, I don't think his car was a '99 either)...I'm glad I got rid of it.
At any rate, these were poor excuses of why their advertising does not reflect the true description of the products they sell. Let's not even get into the "zinc coating will eliminate squeaks as exhibited on powder coated bars of our competitors" hype. My car squeaked like a wooden boat after a few weeks of having the bars on the car. I told Ben that he should remove that piece of marketing genius from the webpage, but he didn't seem to get it. He said that the ad should have read, "...zinc coating eliminates squeaks.....when lubed to the hilt!" Well, duh....that would be the case with all swaybars if you lube them up enough.
As it stands, the UUC bars are in my basement awaiting testing. I'm also waiting for the shipment of Eibach bars to put on my car while the stock bars are on my car now. The UUC bars came off my car because 1) the squeaking drove my crazy and 2) my car's handling seemed off (sluggish compared even to stock) and since no one really knows what the different diameters will do, I didn't want to take a chance at Road Atlanta.
Dan Wang is right, everyone 1/10th counts. BTW, we measured the UUC bars at different points along the bar to make sure we weren't measuring a "low" spot. 25.4 and 23.7 for the front and rear, respectively.